Hey guys, i had a situation come about the other night and was wondering if, from a legal stand point, i handled it correctly.
I was leaving work at around 3am and walking between 4 and 5 blocks to my car and noticed i was being followed by 2 men. In the area its not uncommon for people walking around this late so i was not too concerned but still was cautious. I crossed to the opposite side of the street still heading the same direction and a half block up they also crossed. At this point they're about 25-30ft behind me and i played dumb like i lost my car as i got near it and crossed the street again towards my car.
At this point i think they knew they couldn't follow me "un-noticed" so they began to call out to me asking if i had a ciggarette. "sorry i dont smoke guys" as i kept walking and looking over my shoulder. They said something to each other under their breath and kept approaching me.
Here is where i am curious: At this point im within 10 ft of my car with them now inside the 21ft mark of me. In the last step or to before my car i casually bent down mid-step and pretended to pull my pant leg back over my boot and "accidentally" let my shirt rise up over my pistol, now in plain view. I stood back up at my car, turned back towards them, angled my strong side so they could not see my hand and put it on my pistol, and politely asked if i could help them with anything else.
They suddenly became very polite, said that was it, and even told me to have a good night, and turned and walked back in the direction i came from.
I know its a long story for a short question but i just wanted to be sure you got the full perspective. I have no doubt in my mind about doing the right thing to avoid pulling the trigger, but looking back im beginning to wonder if it was the right thing from a legal stand point?
Any input is appreciated.

DK

Could be called brandishing.

I just call it escalation of force.

Technically, that's brandishing. However, it really all depends on how you articulate it to the police/magistrate/judge.

For my $0.02, however, I would agree and say that's just step two in EOF... "Shout, Show, Shove, Shoot."

From my cop days I wouldnt say you did anything wrong. You didnt pull it out and point it. The details you listed above show you were alarmed, and had begun to fear for your safety.

If you did not unholster then it is not brandishing, as open carry is already legal in virginia. If you had withdrew your firearm that would be brandishing.

you did nothing wrong, and you probably saved yourself from a very unfortunate incident.

"An Armed Society Is A Polite Society"

Wouldn't hurt to write it down, including the descriptions of the guys,locations, times etc. Next time it happens to an unarmed person, they may be looking for the same guys.

I thought that might have been brandishing. But i guess it would come down to the eyes of the jury. Again, i dont question what i did, especially since it was very effective and nobody was hurt, but the law could see things different.
A good call bagdady. I did call a buddy of mine who was an officer on duty in the area at the time just to give him a heads up.
Thank you guys for the input.
DK

You did the right thing. You avoided as much as possible until it became necessary. The ugly downside is, they (insert criminal activity here) prey on weakness. They continued on when they saw you go out of your way to avoid them. They knew you did not want confrontation. These guys want an easy score, that's why they steal and not earn. If they don't have the advantage they usually don't make the move.

I wouldnt classify this as brandishing, and i think what you did was the right thing. But it could have gone south very quickly if they had one as well but this is one risk that we all take when we put that weapon on our belt.

Hate to be a stickler but this is not exactly true. You are semi correct but lets see if we can narrow it down a bit. I have arrested and convicted for someone who never actually unholstered a weapon. Look at the code, COV 18.2-282(subsection A excert here)

"It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance,whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured."

Brandish does not mean unholster. The long underlined section is key to this as a criminal act. If you actually continue reading it goes on about holding the weapon which would mean he unholstered it. That would not be necessary to include in there if it was not 2 totally different things.

In the situation that comes to mind most recently, we had a young man come to our office(he wasn't too bright) to apply for a job. We believe he was on something at the time but could never prove it. He stated he wanted a job application and after being handed one by our secretary, he proceeded to explain why he would be so great at the job. In this explanation he states how he has a CCW(which he did not btw) and jerks his shirt up and twists his strong side towards our secretary showing a 1911 in a holster.

I arrested, charged, and convicted the young man of carrying a concealed weapon and brandishing a firearm. He never drew it from the holster but his actions put the secretary in fear. The magistrate, commonwealth's attorney, and judge all agreed obviously since he was convicted.

Just wanted to clear that up.

Now in the OP situation its a little different. He had reason to fear for his own safety. If you look up the code section you can easily see:

"However, this section shall notapply to any person engaged in excusable or justifiable self-defense."

Since he had reason to fear for his safety, there is no way any officer should charge him and I highly doubt you would ever find a magistrate to issue the warrant, commonwealth's attorney to prosecute the case, or a judge/jury that would convict it.

Hope that cleared up a little confusion!

Yes, the young guy applying for a job did brandish the weapon, he intentionally pulled his shirt up, but this guy didnt pull his shirt up, he bent down to make believe he was tucking his pants outside his boot. We know he did do it because he confesed publicly in doing it but had he not admitted in bending over to let the weapon be seen......eeeeeehhhhh dont know how that will hold up in court to be honest, would put my money on not-guilty.

Did you read my whole post? It doesn't seem like it. I already said the OP did not brandish. What I was responding to was someone who stated that you could not brandish without unholstering the weapon which in fact is not accurate and I gave an example of such.

Missed read you then. Great minds think alike.

I do get a little long winded sometimes......

Thanks for the clarification, I've always wondered what was considered "brandishing". Whenever I conceal carry i'm always paranoid that someone may see the imprint of my weapon through my jacket, so I'm constantly adjusting it. The last thing I want is someone to be frightened when they realize I'm carrying, I use a shoulder rig in the winter, but starting to consider purchasing a pancake holster.

Forgive me for reviving a resting topic. Is the gentleman not able to change the status of his weapon from concealed to open carry as the situation dictates? It's not as though in this case he was unwarranted on readying himself. If you read the law it says point, hold, or brandish. It would appear that the gentleman displayed his weapon in a nonthreatening manner so as to give fair warning to the possible miscreants without drawing or touching it. Think how many times someone shady has asked you the time when you were not wearing a watch or for a cigarette when it was less than geographically convenient to provide them one even if you did smoke. I agree that the details should be noted and a report of suspicious persons should be filed to protect the sheep.

[quote=sbc_pd10
In the situation that comes to mind most recently, we had a young man come to our office(he wasn't too bright) to apply for a job. We believe he was on something at the time but could never prove it. He stated he wanted a job application and after being handed one by our secretary, he proceeded to explain why he would be so great at the job. In this explanation he states how he has a CCW(which he did not btw) and jerks his shirt up and twists his strong side towards our secretary showing a 1911 in a holster.

I arrested, charged, and convicted the young man of carrying a concealed weapon and brandishing a firearm. He never drew it from the holster but his actions put the secretary in fear. The magistrate, commonwealth's attorney, and judge all agreed obviously since he was convicted.

Just wanted to clear that up.

: [/quote]

so just showing someone that you are carrying a gun can get you arrested for brandishing? what exactly did he do to "put the secretary in fear"? maybe this is one of those "you had to be there" situations, but it seems like just by seeing my gun someone who is anti-gun or unfamiliar with guns could say that they were "in fear" just because i had a gun with me.

it seems to me that "brandishing" should involve using your weapon in a threatening manner, not simply displaying the fact that you have a weapon.

but that's just my .02cents, and the dollar ain't worth what it used to be.

cheers,

chris

I would think seriously about the theatrics of "stopping and bending over to expose your gun" if this ever happens again. Use that time to get some cover and react as needed. It's gonna be your choice..risk a brandishing charge or take an a_s whippin or worse!!!

Nice thread, good stuff in here.