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#769637 - 08/11/14 04:48 PM Expansion Industries ETR7 from Hev's Bullets and More
r0kawn Offline
Master of Puppets

Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 72
Loc: VA
City or County: Westmoreland
Foreward:
Without much in the way of published load data for this proprietary powder, I began with charges significantly lighter than what Expansion Industries listed on their facebook page, which are quite diluted and non-specific.

Also, my goals and requirements in hand loading are catered towards shooting USPSA competitions. Currently I am shooting a Tanfoglio Stock II, .40S&W caliber in the Production division. Production division requires a minimum Power Factor of 125, which is determined by Velocity x Bullet Weight in grains / 1000. Using 165gr Berry's plated bullets, I need a minimum of 757fps. Recently I've switch from 180gr projectiles to 165gr to get a higher velocity at comparable power factor for minimum recoil/muzzle rise. My desired velocity that I'm aiming to achieve before larger batch testing is 850-875 for a faster cycling slide as compared to the 180gr at around 750fps I have been using.

As with the majority of powders, I discovered Expansion Industries's ETR7 to be inconsistent at very light loads. At 3.3gr, the slide failed to cycle completely 50% of the time, while also having a huge swing in velocity. I did not achieve satisfactory extreme spreads in velocity until 4.5gr and heavier.

Overall thoughts so far in testing:
Burns considerably cleaner than my current two primary powders, Hodgdon Titegroup and Winchester WST. Where both TG and WST leave significant residue in the chamber and on the forward 2” of dust cover closest to the muzzle, the ETR7 left only a slight light yellow hue on the first 1/4” of the dust cover. Further testing is needed on higher round counts as only about 100 rounds were shot today in total.
Muzzle rise/felt recoil seems comparable to Titegroup. Next I will be loading 200 rounds at 4.4/4.5gr to test the feel and comfort very soon.

40s&w chrono

180gr Polymer Coated Lead Bayou Bullet, 3.1gr Hodgdon TiteGroup, Winchester Small Pistol Primer. Used as a base load for desired power factor and “feel”.
740
741
764
767
762
777
766
774
739
757 avg
38 es
14 sd
136.2 pf

165gr Berry's plated flat point, 3.3gr Expansion Industries ETR7, Winchester Small Pistol Primer.
533
529
652
590
540
622
559
540
655
446
556 avg
209 es
64 sd

165gr Berry's, 3.5gr Expansion Industries ETR7, Winchester Small Pistol Primer.
625
616
646
705
638
678
573
629
628
641
637 avg
132 es
35 sd

165gr Berry's, 3.7gr Expansion Industries ETR7, Winchester Small Pistol Primer.
759
738
659
679
729
705
665
751
650
723
705 avg
109 es
40 sd

165gr Berry's, 4.0gr Expansion Industries ETR7, Winchester Small Pistol Primer.
775
739
726
742
738
739
782
689
777
735
744 avg
93 es
27 sd
122 pf

165gr Berry's, 4.2gr Expansion Industries ETR7, Winchester Small Pistol Primer.
752
784
773
791
797
770
756
761
854
761
806
782 avg
102 es
29 sd
129 pf

165gr Berry's, 4.5gr Expansion Industries ETR7, Winchester Small Pistol Primer.
885
870
868
899
875
889
841
858
890
862
873 avg
58 es
17 sd
144 pf

165gr Berry's, 4.75gr Expansion Industries ETR7, Winchester Small Pistol Primer.
904
883
897
902
904
900
905
906
924
920
904 avg
41 es
11 sd
149 pf

165gr Berry's, 5.0gr Expansion Industries ETR7, Winchester Small Pistol Primer.
901
958
958
921
911
944
934
955
946
946
919
933 avg
57 es
19 sd
153pf

165gr Berry's, 5.25gr Expansion Industries ETR7, Winchester Small Pistol Primer.
983
976
980
969
977
998
994
977
981 avg
29 es
9 sd
161pf

165gr Berry's, 5.5gr Expansion Industries ETR7, Winchester Small Pistol Primer.
973
1008
996
990
1013
1002
1045
1025
1015
1007 avg
72 es
20 sd
166 pf





Attachments
IMG_1407.JPG (307 downloads)
IMG_1525.jpg



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#769710 - 08/11/14 06:50 PM Re: Expansion Industries ETR7 from Hev's Bullets and More [Re: r0kawn]
Rogpog Offline
Grandpoobar

Registered: 01/11/14
Posts: 1166
Loc: "The plains"
City or County: Fauqier county
Thankyou for your efforts to publish some great data for us to use and consider on.
_________________________
The only way I can see value in our 'off work' time is to go back to work, punch the clock on your time off...actually get paid for the time you would otherwise allot to handloading...that would be a value...but, you prolly wouldn't shoot as much.

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#770122 - 08/12/14 03:29 PM Re: Expansion Industries ETR7 from Hev's Bullets and More [Re: r0kawn]
r0kawn Offline
Master of Puppets

Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 72
Loc: VA
City or County: Westmoreland
I did a bit more testing today with this powder and have mixed results to report.

Continuing with the .40s&w from yesterday, I loaded 200 rounds of 165gr Berry's flat point bullets over 4.4 grains of ETR7 for some accuracy and perceived recoil testing. To start with, I shot 3 sets of 10 rounds over the chronograph.

4.4gr ETR7
851
855
786
843
836
859
844
829
810
864
837 avg
78 es
24 sd
138pf

4.4gr ETR7
845
794
794
842
804
864
811
868
802
761
818 avg
107 es
34 sd
134.9 pf


4.4gr ETR7
847
786
852
794
827
866
854
896
887
767
837 avg
129 es
43 sd
138 pf

As you all can see, I'm not getting consistent velocity with this powder. Just to confirm function of the chrono, I ran 5 rounds of my tried-and-true 180gr Bayou Bullet over 3.1gr of TiteGroup:
Overcast 40sw

Bayou 180, 3.1 tg
769
731
744
731
736
742
38 es
15 sd
133.5 pf

The extreme spread of the ETR7 was more than doubled (or higher) than the Titegroup.

On the positive, this load felt great in hand. I ran the remaining 170 rounds thru the gun doing various drills to help quantify my findings and thoughts versus the 180gr bullet load I have been shooting. The gun is considerably faster cycling as expected. The sight lift is very predictable - faster than before. I'm not waiting for the slide/sight to return to break the next shot as before. The dustcover, rails and ejection port of my Tanfoglio was left considerably cleaner than when shooting Titegroup, with less gunky gelatinous build up.

I also tested some load work ups using 147gr Berry's 9mm today. I will say that this powder appears to be very well suited to 9mm, producing a much more consistent velocity and was extremely soft shooting. At this point, I plan to batch test another 200 rounds loaded with 3.6-3.7 grains of ETR7 for more input, but I feel that this may replace the 3.4gr of TiteGroup I have been using for my 3gun pistol load.

Here's the results for your consideration:

Smith and Wesson M&P Pro 5"

147gr Berry's Flatpoint 9mm
Expansion Industries ETR7 powder

3.0gr
811
788
796
799
800
798
776
796
794
761
791 avg
50 es
14 sd
116 pf

3.25gr
823
847
839
839
840
828
841
840
829
834 avg
24 es
8 sd
122.6 pf

3.5gr
870
869
861
860
850
874
877
855
877
853
865 avg
24 es
8 sd
127.1pf

3.75gr
917
897
913
919
900
903
939
903
900
909 avg
36 es
11 sd
133 pf

4.0gr
955
960
968
951
969
937
956 avg
32 es
11 sd
140.5 pf





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#772089 - 08/16/14 05:50 PM Re: Expansion Industries ETR7 from Hev's Bullets and More [Re: r0kawn]
jeff85 Offline
single action

Registered: 09/03/12
Posts: 174
Loc: Tidewater
City or County: chesapeake
Thanks for the post... I have more than enough cfe pistol and hp38 at the moment, but hopefully this thread doesn't go away if I get a chance to get some etr7. One thing I do not like about titegroup is that it burns very hot and heats the barrel faster than other powders. How does etr7 function in this regard?
_________________________
*insert witty comment*

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#772627 - 08/17/14 07:34 PM Re: Expansion Industries ETR7 from Hev's Bullets and More [Re: jeff85]
boltactionfan Offline
DEO VINDICE

Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 1876
Loc: 22407
City or County: Spotsylvania
I took some test loads out today with ETR7 loaded under 124 grain rn Berry's plated bullets, 6 batches of 10 rounds starting at 3.8-4.3 grains. (Jeff85) I found the ETR7 to run much cooler compared to the 4.1 grains of Titegroup that I run normally but I also have not reached the velocities with ETR7 that I am running with Titegroup. I also found the same as r0kawn that the powder burns much cleaner, the residue left on the gun is noticeably less compared to Titegroup and Accurate #7, also the soot that is left on the fired cases considerably less than what titegroup and #7 leave.

ETR7 can be purchased in Hampton Roads: http://www.vaguntrader.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/768620#Post768620

ETR7 can be purchased in Fredericksburg: http://www.vaguntrader.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/768809#Post768809
Test subject is a Gen 3 Glock 19

To get a baseline I started with one of my normal loads:

Berry's 124 gr rn plated, C.O.L. 1.150, 4.1 gr Hodgdon Titegroup, Wolf spp, mixed head stamp once fired brass.

1048
1073
1078
1072
1090
1071
1053
1075
1072
1059
avg 1069
es 42
sd 12
pf 132

Berry's 124 gr rn plated, C.O.L. 1.150, 3.8 gr ETR7, Wolf spp, mixed head stamp once fired brass. With this load the brass was ejecting with no failures but it was not flying as consistently as the 4.0 + grain loads.

937
931
921
934
931
921
920
927
930
934
avg 929
es 17
sd 6
pf 115

Berry's 124 gr rn plated, C.O.L. 1.150, 3.9 gr ETR7, Wolf spp, mixed head stamp once fired brass. With this load the brass was ejecting with no failures but it was not flying as consistently as the 4.0 + grain loads.

949
939
945
964
955
957
964
952
954
961
avg 954
es 25
sd 8
pf 118

Berry's 124 gr rn plated, C.O.L. 1.150, 4.0 gr ETR7, Wolf spp, mixed head stamp once fired brass.

950
957
953
943
953
951
982
939
961
969
avg 956
es 43
sd 12
pf 118

Berry's 124 gr rn plated, C.O.L. 1.150, 4.1 gr ETR7, Wolf spp, mixed head stamp once fired brass.

977
962
970
970
968
998
988
985
977
978
avg 977
es 36
sd 10
pf 121

Berry's 124 gr rn plated, C.O.L. 1.150, 4.2 gr ETR7, Wolf spp, mixed head stamp once fired brass.

1005
994
994
996
994
992
997
992
1008
1003
avg 997
es 16
sd 5
pf 123

Berry's 124 gr rn plated, C.O.L. 1.150, 4.3 gr ETR7, Wolf spp, mixed head stamp once fired brass.

1008
995
1013
999
1001
1007
998
1007
999
1017
avg 1004
es 19
sd 7
pf 124
_________________________
Deo vindice

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#775508 - 08/23/14 01:07 PM Re: Expansion Industries ETR7 from Hev's Bullets and More [Re: r0kawn]
M&Pshadow Offline
M.I.T. - Marksman In Training

Registered: 02/11/11
Posts: 211
Loc: Chesterfield, Virginia
City or County: CHESTERFIELD
I took some test loads out today with ETR7 loaded under 124 grain rn Berry's plated bullets (19324), 8 batches of 10 rounds starting at 3.8-4.6 grains.
The loads were shot out of a Full Size M&P9 (4.25" Barrel) and an M&P9 Pro (5" Barrel)
Overall the loads were fairly consistent, felt really good; and there were no signs of pressure at the slightly higher charge.
(I will add photos later of the cases)

Smith & Wesson M&P9 Full Size (4.25")

Berry's 124 gr rn plated (19324), C.O.L. 1.160, 4.4 gr Alliant Green Dot, CCI 500 Small Pistol Primer, R-P headstamp fired brass.

Round # Velocity
1 1009
2 1044
3 1020
4 1056
5 1042
6 1032
7 1031
8 1012
9 999
10 1044

AVG 1028.9
SD 17.3
ES 56.9

PF 127.5

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Berry's 124 gr rn plated (19324), C.O.L. 1.160, 3.8 gr ETR7, CCI 500 Small Pistol Primer, R-P headstamp fired brass.

Round # Velocity
1 875.9
2 890.05
3 942.6
4 937.5
5 924.9
6 912.2
7 917.1
8 897.2
9 891.3
10 874.7

AVG 906.34
SD 22.9
ES 67.8

PF 112.3

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Berry's 124 gr rn plated (19324), C.O.L. 1.160, 3.8 gr ETR7, CCI 550 Magnum Small Pistol Primer, R-P headstamp fired brass.

Round # Velocity
1 886.9
2 856.9
3 912.9
4 942.5
5 949.8
6 941.1
7 924.7
8 936.8
9 930.09
10 914.9

AVG 919.659
SD 27.2
ES 92.8

PF 114

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Berry's 124 gr rn plated (19324), C.O.L. 1.160, 4.4 gr ETR7, CCI 500 Small Pistol Primer, R-P headstamp fired brass.

Round # Velocity
1 1061
2 1053
3 1074
4 1066
5 1070
6 1056
7 1009
8 1013
9 1031
10 1035

AVG 1046.8
SD 22.1
ES 65

PF 129.8

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Berry's 124 gr rn plated (19324), C.O.L. 1.160, 4.6 gr ETR7, CCI 500 Small Pistol Primer, R-P headstamp fired brass.


Round # Velocity
1 1065
2 1084
3 1092
4 1092
5 1094
6 1094
7 1086
8 1080
9 Err
10 Err

AVG 1085.875
SD 9.1
ES 29

PF 134.6


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Smith & Wesson M&P9 Pro (5")

Berry's 124 gr rn plated (19324), C.O.L. 1.160, 4.4 gr Alliant Green Dot, CCI 500 Small Pistol Primer, R-P headstamp fired brass.

Round # Velocity
1 1045
2 1030
3 1057
4 1046
5 1024
6 1023
7 1072
8 1027
9 1043
10 1019

AVG 1038.6
SD 16.1
ES 53

PF 128.7

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Berry's 124 gr rn plated (19324), C.O.L. 1.160, 3.8 gr ETR7, CCI 500 Small Pistol Primer, R-P headstamp fired brass.

Round # Velocity
1 841.3
2 919.8
3 931
4 921.9
5 898.8
6 911.7
7 913.6
8 902.5
9 910.5
10 880.8

AVG 903.19
SD 24.4
ES 89.6

PF 112

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Berry's 124 gr rn plated (19324), C.O.L. 1.160, 3.8 gr ETR7, CCI 550 Magnum Small Pistol Primer, R-P headstamp fired brass.

Round # Velocity
1 910.7
2 902.4
3 945.6
4 946.4
5 936
6 929.4
7 963.5
8 923.8
9 947
10 934.5

AVG 933.93
SD 17.3
ES 61.1

PF 115.8

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Berry's 124 gr rn plated (19324), C.O.L. 1.160, 4.4 gr ETR7, CCI 500 Small Pistol Primer, R-P headstamp fired brass.

Round # Velocity
1 1048
2 1059
3 1058
4 1047
5 1063
6 1049
7 1058
8 1039
9 1049
10 1041

AVG 1051.1
SD 7.5
ES 24

PF 130.3

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Berry's 124 gr rn plated (19324), C.O.L. 1.160, 4.6 gr ETR7, CCI 500 Small Pistol Primer, R-P headstamp fired brass.

Round # Velocity
1 1057
2 1118
3 1091
4 1087
5 1141
6 1085
7 1075
8 1104
9 1114
10 1079

AVG 1095.1
SD 23.1
ES 84

PF 130.3


Attachments
20140823_145957.jpg

20140823_150006.jpg

20140823_150133.jpg

20140823_150139.jpg




Edited by M&Pshadow (08/24/14 08:53 PM)

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#825009 - 12/07/14 04:41 PM Re: Expansion Industries ETR7 from Hev's Bullets and More [Re: r0kawn]
laughingdawg Offline
Pea shooter

Registered: 01/30/13
Posts: 21
Loc: Chesapeake, VA
City or County: Chesapeake
Since the loading data provided by Expansion Industries is so uninformative (how does a powder company not give even a test barrel length or velocity for their charges), I figured I'd include the data I gathered so far for ETR7 as well. I have noticed that, where our bullets and charges overlap, I got noticeably higher avg velocity than the OP did with his loads. No idea if that's temperature related or entirely from being different barrels.

All data collected with a CED M2 chronograph

9mm 124g Berry's plated RN, OAL 1.152", 59F, ETR7, Federal small pistol primer, CZ75 SP01

ETR7 3.8g
Avg 979fps, 121.4PF
SD 8.6
ES 25

ETR 4.0g
Avg 1024fps, 126.9PF
SD 11.0
ES 30

ETR 4.3g
Avg 1059fps, 129.9PF
SD 9.4
ES 26



40S&W 180g Berry's plated FP, OAL 1.120", 59F, ETR7, Winchester small pistol primer, G35 with Lone Wolf .40 barrel

ETR 4.6g
Avg 921fps, 165.7PF
SD 13
ES 36

ETR 4.8g
Avg 937fps, 168.6PF
SD 12
ES 45


.45 ACP 200g Berry's plated FP, OAL 1.120", 59F, ETR7, Federal large pistol primer, Springfield 1911 w/5" barrel

ETR 4.8g
Avg 661fps, 132.1PF
SD 35
ES 90

ETR 5.0g
Avg 736fps, 147.1PF
SD 35
ES 98

ETR 5.3g
Avg 772fps, 154.3PF
SD 22
ES 53

ETR 5.55g
Avg 822fps, 164.3PF
SD 10
ES 30


Edited by laughingdawg (12/07/14 04:45 PM)

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#843905 - 01/18/15 07:42 PM Re: Expansion Industries ETR7 from Hev's Bullets and More [Re: r0kawn]
aa6.5grendal Offline
Double barrel

Registered: 05/05/11
Posts: 82
Loc: virginia
City or County: rustburg
This is a great post wish we could get more like this very informative. Keep up the great work.

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#844559 - 01/20/15 09:24 AM Re: Expansion Industries ETR7 from Hev's Bullets and More [Re: aa6.5grendal]
TMVA Offline
VGT SWAT

Registered: 04/07/10
Posts: 4063
Loc: Richmond west end
City or County: Henrico
Originally Posted By: aa6.5grendal
This is a great post wish we could get more like this very informative. Keep up the great work.


I'll second that. Thanks for the thorough and precise information.

I'm interested in 9mm with 115gr Berry's plated RN running at 1140 FPS. If anyone has an opportunity to test a load to achieve that velocity please publish the info. I run an OAL of 1.10".
_________________________
Psalm 22:11



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#870238 - 03/11/15 12:30 PM Re: Expansion Industries ETR7 from Hev's Bullets and More [Re: boltactionfan]
autoxinvr6 Offline
Marksman

Registered: 05/18/11
Posts: 271
Loc: Virginia Beach
City or County: Virginia Beach
I figured I might add some more recent load data to the mix for anyone curious. I tried 9mm loads through a G17 and G26 and .45acp loads through a 4.25in Commander 1911.

Berry's 124 gr HBRN-TP plated, C.O.L. 1.160, Remington 6 1/2 primer, mixed head stamp once fired brass.

Loads below were shot from a G17 (4.49in barrel) and were at 1.16 OAL.
4.1gr - 1024,1032,1055,1055 (1042avg, SD16, ES30)
4.2gr - 1029,1023,1023,1036,1040,1016 (1027avg, SD9, ES24)
4.3gr - 1023,1000,1057,1047,1034 (1032avg, SD22, ES57)
4.4gr - 1032,1103,1061,1054,1059 (1061avg SD26, ES71)
4.5gr - 1022,1059,1084,1067,1067,1073 (1062avg, SD21, ES62)

Loads below were from a G26 (3.42in barrel) and were at 1.16 OAL
4.2gr - 1007,986,986,1004,964,984,979 (987avg, SD15, ES43)
4.3gr - 982,995,982,980,939 (975avg, SD21, ES56)
4.4gr - 971,956,1028,962,986,987 (981avg, SD26, ES72)

As for .45ACP I used Berrys 230gr RN plated, C.O.L 1.25, Winchester LPP and mixed stamp brass

Loads below were from a 4.25in barrel Commander sized 1911.
5.2gr 765,776,765,794,759,791,759,766,784,782,775,746,750,778 (771avg, SD15, ES48)
5.3gr 772,772,792,794,754,795,767,777,780,788,783,781,780,768 (778avg, SD12, ES41)
5.4gr 782,797,781,756,768,751,774,779,786,786,776,778,769 (776avg, ES12, SD46)
5.5gr 773,789,808,796,794,789,798,747,775,787 (786avg, SD17, ES61)

Comparing that to factory PMC from the same gun. 783,784,782,784,784,772,760 (778avg, SD9, ES24)


I would like to do some more 124gr loads in 4.2gr and 4.3gr with a slightly lower C.O.L. to see if I can make it better. Looking at some of the other data here it looks like 4.2/4.3gr is the sweet spot as far as round consistency goes...


As far as .45acp goes, I experienced some unburnt powder on the table in front of me. I did not notice on what loads the powder appeared but, I want to try some more 5.3gr loads to see what happens.

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#898366 - 05/15/15 02:02 PM Re: Expansion Industries ETR7 from Hev's Bullets and More [Re: r0kawn]
ALG70 Offline
Double barrel

Registered: 02/12/14
Posts: 89
Loc: VA
City or County: Louisa
9mm 115 Grain Berrys Plated @ 1.135OAL
4.3 Grains ETR7
Tula Small Pistol Primer

I'm shooting these thru my G19 with standard recoil spring. I do not have a chronograph, but I suspect this recipe is just under minor PF. The accuracy is very good and these rounds are burning clean.

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#915833 - 06/27/15 08:59 AM Re: Expansion Industries ETR7 from Hev's Bullets and More [Re: r0kawn]
TMVA Offline
VGT SWAT

Registered: 04/07/10
Posts: 4063
Loc: Richmond west end
City or County: Henrico
If the case has space, try an OAL of 1.10 on the 9mm 115gr. That's what I run in all my comp guns (with a different powder).
_________________________
Psalm 22:11



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