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#769637 - 08/11/14 04:48 PM
Expansion Industries ETR7 from Hev's Bullets and More
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r0kawn
Master of Puppets
Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 72
Loc: VA
City or County: Westmoreland
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Foreward: Without much in the way of published load data for this proprietary powder, I began with charges significantly lighter than what Expansion Industries listed on their facebook page, which are quite diluted and non-specific. Also, my goals and requirements in hand loading are catered towards shooting USPSA competitions. Currently I am shooting a Tanfoglio Stock II, .40S&W caliber in the Production division. Production division requires a minimum Power Factor of 125, which is determined by Velocity x Bullet Weight in grains / 1000. Using 165gr Berry's plated bullets, I need a minimum of 757fps. Recently I've switch from 180gr projectiles to 165gr to get a higher velocity at comparable power factor for minimum recoil/muzzle rise. My desired velocity that I'm aiming to achieve before larger batch testing is 850-875 for a faster cycling slide as compared to the 180gr at around 750fps I have been using. As with the majority of powders, I discovered Expansion Industries's ETR7 to be inconsistent at very light loads. At 3.3gr, the slide failed to cycle completely 50% of the time, while also having a huge swing in velocity. I did not achieve satisfactory extreme spreads in velocity until 4.5gr and heavier. Overall thoughts so far in testing: Burns considerably cleaner than my current two primary powders, Hodgdon Titegroup and Winchester WST. Where both TG and WST leave significant residue in the chamber and on the forward 2” of dust cover closest to the muzzle, the ETR7 left only a slight light yellow hue on the first 1/4” of the dust cover. Further testing is needed on higher round counts as only about 100 rounds were shot today in total. Muzzle rise/felt recoil seems comparable to Titegroup. Next I will be loading 200 rounds at 4.4/4.5gr to test the feel and comfort very soon. 40s&w chrono 180gr Polymer Coated Lead Bayou Bullet, 3.1gr Hodgdon TiteGroup, Winchester Small Pistol Primer. Used as a base load for desired power factor and “feel”. 740 741 764 767 762 777 766 774 739 757 avg 38 es 14 sd 136.2 pf 165gr Berry's plated flat point, 3.3gr Expansion Industries ETR7, Winchester Small Pistol Primer. 533 529 652 590 540 622 559 540 655 446 556 avg 209 es 64 sd 165gr Berry's, 3.5gr Expansion Industries ETR7, Winchester Small Pistol Primer. 625 616 646 705 638 678 573 629 628 641 637 avg 132 es 35 sd 165gr Berry's, 3.7gr Expansion Industries ETR7, Winchester Small Pistol Primer. 759 738 659 679 729 705 665 751 650 723 705 avg 109 es 40 sd 165gr Berry's, 4.0gr Expansion Industries ETR7, Winchester Small Pistol Primer. 775 739 726 742 738 739 782 689 777 735 744 avg 93 es 27 sd 122 pf 165gr Berry's, 4.2gr Expansion Industries ETR7, Winchester Small Pistol Primer. 752 784 773 791 797 770 756 761 854 761 806 782 avg 102 es 29 sd 129 pf 165gr Berry's, 4.5gr Expansion Industries ETR7, Winchester Small Pistol Primer. 885 870 868 899 875 889 841 858 890 862 873 avg 58 es 17 sd 144 pf 165gr Berry's, 4.75gr Expansion Industries ETR7, Winchester Small Pistol Primer. 904 883 897 902 904 900 905 906 924 920 904 avg 41 es 11 sd 149 pf 165gr Berry's, 5.0gr Expansion Industries ETR7, Winchester Small Pistol Primer. 901 958 958 921 911 944 934 955 946 946 919 933 avg 57 es 19 sd 153pf 165gr Berry's, 5.25gr Expansion Industries ETR7, Winchester Small Pistol Primer. 983 976 980 969 977 998 994 977 981 avg 29 es 9 sd 161pf 165gr Berry's, 5.5gr Expansion Industries ETR7, Winchester Small Pistol Primer. 973 1008 996 990 1013 1002 1045 1025 1015 1007 avg 72 es 20 sd 166 pf
Attachments
IMG_1407.JPG (307 downloads)
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#769710 - 08/11/14 06:50 PM
Re: Expansion Industries ETR7 from Hev's Bullets and More
[Re: r0kawn]
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Rogpog
Grandpoobar
Registered: 01/11/14
Posts: 1166
Loc: "The plains"
City or County: Fauqier county
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Thankyou for your efforts to publish some great data for us to use and consider on.
_________________________
The only way I can see value in our 'off work' time is to go back to work, punch the clock on your time off...actually get paid for the time you would otherwise allot to handloading...that would be a value...but, you prolly wouldn't shoot as much.
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#770122 - 08/12/14 03:29 PM
Re: Expansion Industries ETR7 from Hev's Bullets and More
[Re: r0kawn]
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r0kawn
Master of Puppets
Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 72
Loc: VA
City or County: Westmoreland
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I did a bit more testing today with this powder and have mixed results to report. Continuing with the .40s&w from yesterday, I loaded 200 rounds of 165gr Berry's flat point bullets over 4.4 grains of ETR7 for some accuracy and perceived recoil testing. To start with, I shot 3 sets of 10 rounds over the chronograph. 4.4gr ETR7 851 855 786 843 836 859 844 829 810 864 837 avg 78 es 24 sd 138pf 4.4gr ETR7 845 794 794 842 804 864 811 868 802 761 818 avg 107 es 34 sd 134.9 pf 4.4gr ETR7 847 786 852 794 827 866 854 896 887 767 837 avg 129 es 43 sd 138 pf As you all can see, I'm not getting consistent velocity with this powder. Just to confirm function of the chrono, I ran 5 rounds of my tried-and-true 180gr Bayou Bullet over 3.1gr of TiteGroup: Overcast 40sw Bayou 180, 3.1 tg 769 731 744 731 736 742 38 es 15 sd 133.5 pf The extreme spread of the ETR7 was more than doubled (or higher) than the Titegroup. On the positive, this load felt great in hand. I ran the remaining 170 rounds thru the gun doing various drills to help quantify my findings and thoughts versus the 180gr bullet load I have been shooting. The gun is considerably faster cycling as expected. The sight lift is very predictable - faster than before. I'm not waiting for the slide/sight to return to break the next shot as before. The dustcover, rails and ejection port of my Tanfoglio was left considerably cleaner than when shooting Titegroup, with less gunky gelatinous build up. I also tested some load work ups using 147gr Berry's 9mm today. I will say that this powder appears to be very well suited to 9mm, producing a much more consistent velocity and was extremely soft shooting. At this point, I plan to batch test another 200 rounds loaded with 3.6-3.7 grains of ETR7 for more input, but I feel that this may replace the 3.4gr of TiteGroup I have been using for my 3gun pistol load. Here's the results for your consideration: Smith and Wesson M&P Pro 5" 147gr Berry's Flatpoint 9mm Expansion Industries ETR7 powder 3.0gr 811 788 796 799 800 798 776 796 794 761 791 avg 50 es 14 sd 116 pf 3.25gr 823 847 839 839 840 828 841 840 829 834 avg 24 es 8 sd 122.6 pf 3.5gr 870 869 861 860 850 874 877 855 877 853 865 avg 24 es 8 sd 127.1pf 3.75gr 917 897 913 919 900 903 939 903 900 909 avg 36 es 11 sd 133 pf 4.0gr 955 960 968 951 969 937 956 avg 32 es 11 sd 140.5 pf
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#772089 - 08/16/14 05:50 PM
Re: Expansion Industries ETR7 from Hev's Bullets and More
[Re: r0kawn]
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jeff85
single action
Registered: 09/03/12
Posts: 174
Loc: Tidewater
City or County: chesapeake
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Thanks for the post... I have more than enough cfe pistol and hp38 at the moment, but hopefully this thread doesn't go away if I get a chance to get some etr7. One thing I do not like about titegroup is that it burns very hot and heats the barrel faster than other powders. How does etr7 function in this regard?
_________________________
*insert witty comment*
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#772627 - 08/17/14 07:34 PM
Re: Expansion Industries ETR7 from Hev's Bullets and More
[Re: jeff85]
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boltactionfan
DEO VINDICE
Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 1876
Loc: 22407
City or County: Spotsylvania
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I took some test loads out today with ETR7 loaded under 124 grain rn Berry's plated bullets, 6 batches of 10 rounds starting at 3.8-4.3 grains. (Jeff85) I found the ETR7 to run much cooler compared to the 4.1 grains of Titegroup that I run normally but I also have not reached the velocities with ETR7 that I am running with Titegroup. I also found the same as r0kawn that the powder burns much cleaner, the residue left on the gun is noticeably less compared to Titegroup and Accurate #7, also the soot that is left on the fired cases considerably less than what titegroup and #7 leave. ETR7 can be purchased in Hampton Roads: http://www.vaguntrader.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/768620#Post768620ETR7 can be purchased in Fredericksburg: http://www.vaguntrader.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/768809#Post768809Test subject is a Gen 3 Glock 19 To get a baseline I started with one of my normal loads: Berry's 124 gr rn plated, C.O.L. 1.150, 4.1 gr Hodgdon Titegroup, Wolf spp, mixed head stamp once fired brass. 1048 1073 1078 1072 1090 1071 1053 1075 1072 1059 avg 1069 es 42 sd 12 pf 132 Berry's 124 gr rn plated, C.O.L. 1.150, 3.8 gr ETR7, Wolf spp, mixed head stamp once fired brass. With this load the brass was ejecting with no failures but it was not flying as consistently as the 4.0 + grain loads. 937 931 921 934 931 921 920 927 930 934 avg 929 es 17 sd 6 pf 115 Berry's 124 gr rn plated, C.O.L. 1.150, 3.9 gr ETR7, Wolf spp, mixed head stamp once fired brass. With this load the brass was ejecting with no failures but it was not flying as consistently as the 4.0 + grain loads. 949 939 945 964 955 957 964 952 954 961 avg 954 es 25 sd 8 pf 118 Berry's 124 gr rn plated, C.O.L. 1.150, 4.0 gr ETR7, Wolf spp, mixed head stamp once fired brass. 950 957 953 943 953 951 982 939 961 969 avg 956 es 43 sd 12 pf 118 Berry's 124 gr rn plated, C.O.L. 1.150, 4.1 gr ETR7, Wolf spp, mixed head stamp once fired brass. 977 962 970 970 968 998 988 985 977 978 avg 977 es 36 sd 10 pf 121 Berry's 124 gr rn plated, C.O.L. 1.150, 4.2 gr ETR7, Wolf spp, mixed head stamp once fired brass. 1005 994 994 996 994 992 997 992 1008 1003 avg 997 es 16 sd 5 pf 123 Berry's 124 gr rn plated, C.O.L. 1.150, 4.3 gr ETR7, Wolf spp, mixed head stamp once fired brass. 1008 995 1013 999 1001 1007 998 1007 999 1017 avg 1004 es 19 sd 7 pf 124
_________________________
Deo vindice
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#775508 - 08/23/14 01:07 PM
Re: Expansion Industries ETR7 from Hev's Bullets and More
[Re: r0kawn]
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M&Pshadow
M.I.T. - Marksman In Training
Registered: 02/11/11
Posts: 211
Loc: Chesterfield, Virginia
City or County: CHESTERFIELD
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I took some test loads out today with ETR7 loaded under 124 grain rn Berry's plated bullets (19324), 8 batches of 10 rounds starting at 3.8-4.6 grains. The loads were shot out of a Full Size M&P9 (4.25" Barrel) and an M&P9 Pro (5" Barrel) Overall the loads were fairly consistent, felt really good; and there were no signs of pressure at the slightly higher charge. (I will add photos later of the cases) Smith & Wesson M&P9 Full Size (4.25")
Berry's 124 gr rn plated (19324), C.O.L. 1.160, 4.4 gr Alliant Green Dot, CCI 500 Small Pistol Primer, R-P headstamp fired brass.
Round # Velocity 1 1009 2 1044 3 1020 4 1056 5 1042 6 1032 7 1031 8 1012 9 999 10 1044 AVG 1028.9 SD 17.3 ES 56.9 PF 127.5
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Berry's 124 gr rn plated (19324), C.O.L. 1.160, 3.8 gr ETR7, CCI 500 Small Pistol Primer, R-P headstamp fired brass.
Round # Velocity 1 875.9 2 890.05 3 942.6 4 937.5 5 924.9 6 912.2 7 917.1 8 897.2 9 891.3 10 874.7 AVG 906.34 SD 22.9 ES 67.8 PF 112.3
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Berry's 124 gr rn plated (19324), C.O.L. 1.160, 3.8 gr ETR7, CCI 550 Magnum Small Pistol Primer, R-P headstamp fired brass.
Round # Velocity 1 886.9 2 856.9 3 912.9 4 942.5 5 949.8 6 941.1 7 924.7 8 936.8 9 930.09 10 914.9 AVG 919.659 SD 27.2 ES 92.8 PF 114
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Berry's 124 gr rn plated (19324), C.O.L. 1.160, 4.4 gr ETR7, CCI 500 Small Pistol Primer, R-P headstamp fired brass.
Round # Velocity 1 1061 2 1053 3 1074 4 1066 5 1070 6 1056 7 1009 8 1013 9 1031 10 1035 AVG 1046.8 SD 22.1 ES 65 PF 129.8
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Berry's 124 gr rn plated (19324), C.O.L. 1.160, 4.6 gr ETR7, CCI 500 Small Pistol Primer, R-P headstamp fired brass.
Round # Velocity 1 1065 2 1084 3 1092 4 1092 5 1094 6 1094 7 1086 8 1080 9 Err 10 Err AVG 1085.875 SD 9.1 ES 29 PF 134.6
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Smith & Wesson M&P9 Pro (5")
Berry's 124 gr rn plated (19324), C.O.L. 1.160, 4.4 gr Alliant Green Dot, CCI 500 Small Pistol Primer, R-P headstamp fired brass.
Round # Velocity 1 1045 2 1030 3 1057 4 1046 5 1024 6 1023 7 1072 8 1027 9 1043 10 1019 AVG 1038.6 SD 16.1 ES 53 PF 128.7
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Berry's 124 gr rn plated (19324), C.O.L. 1.160, 3.8 gr ETR7, CCI 500 Small Pistol Primer, R-P headstamp fired brass.
Round # Velocity 1 841.3 2 919.8 3 931 4 921.9 5 898.8 6 911.7 7 913.6 8 902.5 9 910.5 10 880.8 AVG 903.19 SD 24.4 ES 89.6 PF 112
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Berry's 124 gr rn plated (19324), C.O.L. 1.160, 3.8 gr ETR7, CCI 550 Magnum Small Pistol Primer, R-P headstamp fired brass.
Round # Velocity 1 910.7 2 902.4 3 945.6 4 946.4 5 936 6 929.4 7 963.5 8 923.8 9 947 10 934.5 AVG 933.93 SD 17.3 ES 61.1 PF 115.8
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Berry's 124 gr rn plated (19324), C.O.L. 1.160, 4.4 gr ETR7, CCI 500 Small Pistol Primer, R-P headstamp fired brass.
Round # Velocity 1 1048 2 1059 3 1058 4 1047 5 1063 6 1049 7 1058 8 1039 9 1049 10 1041 AVG 1051.1 SD 7.5 ES 24 PF 130.3
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Berry's 124 gr rn plated (19324), C.O.L. 1.160, 4.6 gr ETR7, CCI 500 Small Pistol Primer, R-P headstamp fired brass.
Round # Velocity 1 1057 2 1118 3 1091 4 1087 5 1141 6 1085 7 1075 8 1104 9 1114 10 1079 AVG 1095.1 SD 23.1 ES 84 PF 130.3
Attachments
Edited by M&Pshadow (08/24/14 08:53 PM)
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#825009 - 12/07/14 04:41 PM
Re: Expansion Industries ETR7 from Hev's Bullets and More
[Re: r0kawn]
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laughingdawg
Pea shooter
Registered: 01/30/13
Posts: 21
Loc: Chesapeake, VA
City or County: Chesapeake
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Since the loading data provided by Expansion Industries is so uninformative (how does a powder company not give even a test barrel length or velocity for their charges), I figured I'd include the data I gathered so far for ETR7 as well. I have noticed that, where our bullets and charges overlap, I got noticeably higher avg velocity than the OP did with his loads. No idea if that's temperature related or entirely from being different barrels.
All data collected with a CED M2 chronograph
9mm 124g Berry's plated RN, OAL 1.152", 59F, ETR7, Federal small pistol primer, CZ75 SP01
ETR7 3.8g Avg 979fps, 121.4PF SD 8.6 ES 25
ETR 4.0g Avg 1024fps, 126.9PF SD 11.0 ES 30
ETR 4.3g Avg 1059fps, 129.9PF SD 9.4 ES 26
40S&W 180g Berry's plated FP, OAL 1.120", 59F, ETR7, Winchester small pistol primer, G35 with Lone Wolf .40 barrel
ETR 4.6g Avg 921fps, 165.7PF SD 13 ES 36
ETR 4.8g Avg 937fps, 168.6PF SD 12 ES 45
.45 ACP 200g Berry's plated FP, OAL 1.120", 59F, ETR7, Federal large pistol primer, Springfield 1911 w/5" barrel
ETR 4.8g Avg 661fps, 132.1PF SD 35 ES 90
ETR 5.0g Avg 736fps, 147.1PF SD 35 ES 98
ETR 5.3g Avg 772fps, 154.3PF SD 22 ES 53
ETR 5.55g Avg 822fps, 164.3PF SD 10 ES 30
Edited by laughingdawg (12/07/14 04:45 PM)
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#843905 - 01/18/15 07:42 PM
Re: Expansion Industries ETR7 from Hev's Bullets and More
[Re: r0kawn]
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aa6.5grendal
Double barrel
Registered: 05/05/11
Posts: 82
Loc: virginia
City or County: rustburg
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This is a great post wish we could get more like this very informative. Keep up the great work.
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#844559 - 01/20/15 09:24 AM
Re: Expansion Industries ETR7 from Hev's Bullets and More
[Re: aa6.5grendal]
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TMVA
VGT SWAT
Registered: 04/07/10
Posts: 4063
Loc: Richmond west end
City or County: Henrico
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This is a great post wish we could get more like this very informative. Keep up the great work. I'll second that. Thanks for the thorough and precise information. I'm interested in 9mm with 115gr Berry's plated RN running at 1140 FPS. If anyone has an opportunity to test a load to achieve that velocity please publish the info. I run an OAL of 1.10".
_________________________
Psalm 22:11
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#870238 - 03/11/15 12:30 PM
Re: Expansion Industries ETR7 from Hev's Bullets and More
[Re: boltactionfan]
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autoxinvr6
Marksman
Registered: 05/18/11
Posts: 271
Loc: Virginia Beach
City or County: Virginia Beach
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I figured I might add some more recent load data to the mix for anyone curious. I tried 9mm loads through a G17 and G26 and .45acp loads through a 4.25in Commander 1911.
Berry's 124 gr HBRN-TP plated, C.O.L. 1.160, Remington 6 1/2 primer, mixed head stamp once fired brass.
Loads below were shot from a G17 (4.49in barrel) and were at 1.16 OAL. 4.1gr - 1024,1032,1055,1055 (1042avg, SD16, ES30) 4.2gr - 1029,1023,1023,1036,1040,1016 (1027avg, SD9, ES24) 4.3gr - 1023,1000,1057,1047,1034 (1032avg, SD22, ES57) 4.4gr - 1032,1103,1061,1054,1059 (1061avg SD26, ES71) 4.5gr - 1022,1059,1084,1067,1067,1073 (1062avg, SD21, ES62)
Loads below were from a G26 (3.42in barrel) and were at 1.16 OAL 4.2gr - 1007,986,986,1004,964,984,979 (987avg, SD15, ES43) 4.3gr - 982,995,982,980,939 (975avg, SD21, ES56) 4.4gr - 971,956,1028,962,986,987 (981avg, SD26, ES72)
As for .45ACP I used Berrys 230gr RN plated, C.O.L 1.25, Winchester LPP and mixed stamp brass
Loads below were from a 4.25in barrel Commander sized 1911. 5.2gr 765,776,765,794,759,791,759,766,784,782,775,746,750,778 (771avg, SD15, ES48) 5.3gr 772,772,792,794,754,795,767,777,780,788,783,781,780,768 (778avg, SD12, ES41) 5.4gr 782,797,781,756,768,751,774,779,786,786,776,778,769 (776avg, ES12, SD46) 5.5gr 773,789,808,796,794,789,798,747,775,787 (786avg, SD17, ES61)
Comparing that to factory PMC from the same gun. 783,784,782,784,784,772,760 (778avg, SD9, ES24)
I would like to do some more 124gr loads in 4.2gr and 4.3gr with a slightly lower C.O.L. to see if I can make it better. Looking at some of the other data here it looks like 4.2/4.3gr is the sweet spot as far as round consistency goes...
As far as .45acp goes, I experienced some unburnt powder on the table in front of me. I did not notice on what loads the powder appeared but, I want to try some more 5.3gr loads to see what happens.
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#915833 - 06/27/15 08:59 AM
Re: Expansion Industries ETR7 from Hev's Bullets and More
[Re: r0kawn]
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TMVA
VGT SWAT
Registered: 04/07/10
Posts: 4063
Loc: Richmond west end
City or County: Henrico
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If the case has space, try an OAL of 1.10 on the 9mm 115gr. That's what I run in all my comp guns (with a different powder).
_________________________
Psalm 22:11
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