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#1060411 - 06/25/16 06:17 PM Re: Universal Background Checks [Re: lue-jones]
chuckyzfr1 Offline
Addicted

Registered: 04/19/09
Posts: 694
Loc: Virginia
City or County: Richmond City
Two things lately I think deserve mentioning, the recent filibuster and Democratic sit-in @ Congress, and that ridiculous article about why AR15's are so scary to shoot that some of y'all are already talking about here...

First off, the filibuster to force a vote, and subsequent sit-in by Dems, demanding a law that precludes people on secret government lists from being able to buy a gun. From left leaning orgs such as the ACLU, to many mainstream news orgs, we've seen criticism of this proposal - the fact that this proposal skirts all due process is a non starter for eliminating a Constitutional right. Imagine proposing the use of a secret government list to deny Americans of any other Constitutional right?! That being said, obviously no legitimate gun owner wants to see terrorists able to legally obtain arms in our country, but the threat of that being possible doesn't mean we throw our whole system of checks and balances, and due process of law out the window...

That article about how shooting an AR15 gave Gersh Kuntzman "Temporary PTSD" was almost laughable, were it not so pathetic and potentially insulting to our vets suffering from ACTUAL PTSD. When I saw a reference to the story, I went and found the actual story and the picture of this Gersh Kuntzman character, and I read it in amazement. My first reaction to his claim that the "recoil hurt his shoulder" was to try and find the picture of my 5-year old nephew shouldering his dad's AR, while my brother in law provided some support with the foregrip, and he actually fired the rifle and then smiled broadly...I think this article was merely propaganda designed to turn unknoledgeable people against MSR's. There are a surprising number of people who've never been exposed to firearms, and have no idea what the experience of using one is like.

The rhetoric around guns has certainly been heating up lately. This coming Presidential election should be interesting.
_________________________
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

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#1102901 - 10/09/16 01:22 AM Re: Universal Background Checks [Re: lue-jones]
lue-jones Offline
Marksman

Registered: 02/17/12
Posts: 382
Loc: USA
City or County: Montgomery
Quote:
The batch of emails released by Wikileaks on October 7 includes one in which Hillary Clinton press secretary Brian Fallon explained that Clinton “would support…closing the gun show loophole by executive order.”


Quote:
Circling back around on guns as a follow up to the Friday morning discussion: the Today show has indicated they definitely plan to ask bout guns, and so to have the discussion be more of a news event than her previous times discussing guns, we are going to background reporters tonight on a few of the specific proposals she would support as President – universal background checks of course, but also closing the gun show loophole by executive order and imposing manufacturer liability.


Gun Show Loop Hole To be Closed Via Executive Order

The writing is on the wall and you can fully expect more gun control to become a reality in the United States.

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#1106452 - 10/18/16 01:48 AM Re: Universal Background Checks [Re: lue-jones]
izymic Offline
Bolt action

Registered: 04/04/13
Posts: 125
Loc: NOVA
City or County: Fairfax
Most of you probably know about the AR15 case in Maryland.

A law which banned "assault weapons" passed in 2013 was challenged in Federal court in Maryland. The case is called Kolbe v. Hogan (originally filed as Kolbe v. O'Malley)

In August 2014, the trial court (Federal District court of Maryland -- first stop) found that the plaintiff Kolbe did not prove his case and upheld the Maryland AW ban. Two full years after the last filing.

Kolbe appealed to the 4th Circuit Appeals court. Absolutely huge list of amici filings in favor of Kolbe's case.

Justice Antonin Scalia dies February 13, 2016

In March 2016, the Circuit court issued a decision in Kolbe's favor and overturned the state law -- finding that there was a right to possess so-called "assault weapons."

Maryland had the choice to appeal the case to the US Supreme Court or petition for a rehearing of the entire 4th Circuit (all the judges at once). If they go to USSC, that's it. If they petition for a rehearing, they can still go to USSC.

Maryland opted for rehearing. The rehearing of the case took place on May 11, 2016.

We are still waiting on the decision. I believe they are waiting to see who is elected president. Re-hearing cases usually take 6-9 months to publish.

The presidential election is just a month away now.

If hillary is elected, (I predict) Kolbe will be decided in the plaintiff's favor, overturning Maryland's aw ban. Hillary will install her justice. Merrick Garland will sit. Garland is a noted anti-gun judge on the DC circuit.

That will then put the 4th Circuit in conflict with the 2nd and 9th circuits which have already ruled on nearly identical cases (Silveira v Lockyer and Shew v. Malloy).

Maryland will then appeal the case to SCOTUS and will be granted cert. Why? 1. The case involves a fundamental question of the constitution and 2. it involves a dispute among the circuits.

SCOTUS will review the cases and decide that even though the reasoning of Heller applies (i.e. common ownership, ubiquitous) the "extreme nature" of these weapons warrants an exclusion to the Heller doctrine. SCOTUS will vote 5-4 and overturn Kolbe and "2nd Amendment does not protect AWs" will become the law of the land.

Within a year, Hillary's ATF appointee (who will it be? Obama? Satan?) will issue a proposed change to the CFR which will reclassify all AWs as DD's. Opposition to the measure will be 99:1. ATF will pass it anyway. Don't tell me that they can't do it without changing federal law -- the AG has the authority under 18 USC 921 to find that a GCA firearm does not meet the "sporting purpose" rule and can be reclassified as a Destructive Device and subject to 26 USC (NFA).

Multiple lawsuits will be filed. All will be dismissed citing Kolbe -- no right to have an AW. AG has authority to reclassify based on sporting purposes under 18 USC.

New regs will require Federal registration of AWs within 1 year of the enactment. After that, unregistered possession of a DD (USC 924(c) are either 10 years or 30 years minimum (not kidding) and/or up to $250,000 fine per.

That's how it will happen. I have been right every single time I have called it like this.

If you think I am crazy, just look at the case history for US v. Miller. The trial judge overturned the NFA as unconstitutional!

Judge Heartsill Ragon, the one who found the NFA to be unconstitutional -- was an FDR appointee who served the the House and had vocally advocated for multiple restrictions on firearms. As a member of the US House, he co sponsored a bill that would have banned all private handgun ownership and another bill that banned interstate mailing of handguns.

The solicitor general of the US wanted a test case which found in favor of the NFA. This was it. Ragon issued a memorandum decision -- unheard of even today in constitutional issue cases -- and did not even state his reasoning.

His memorandum decision is ONE HALF OF A PAGE. Overturned a federal law for being violative of the constitution and did not provide even one reason to support it. Read it! https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?...amp;oi=scholarr


If you hate Trump, hold your nose and vote for him.

"The supreme court is wrong on the Second Amendment" -- Hillary Clinton

"Well, I'm a big Second Amendment person. As an example, for the horrible thing that just took place in Oregon had somebody in that room had a gun, the result would have been better." -- Donald Trump

Listen to the video of her saying that Heller was decided WRONG -- i.e. she says the right to keep a handgun IN YOUR HOME FOR SELF PROTECTION is wrong.

VOTE!!

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#1115002 - 11/08/16 10:56 PM Re: Universal Background Checks [Re: lue-jones]
dkamp Offline
Bolt action

Registered: 03/22/16
Posts: 144
Loc: Va Beach
City or County: Virginia Beach
Great post ^^

I agree with most of your prediction, however as shown with history one thing is missing... conflict. To be able to slide it under the table like in 1934 (depression/prohibition), 1968 (Vietnam), and 1986 (Cold War).

So add in a needless escalation with Russia and China (by default) and you have the perfect recipe.
_________________________
Semper

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#1134398 - 12/24/16 05:05 AM Re: Universal Background Checks [Re: dkamp]
lue-jones Offline
Marksman

Registered: 02/17/12
Posts: 382
Loc: USA
City or County: Montgomery
Quote:
Breitbart News reported this ban on July 18, 2015, when it was learned that the Obama administration was creating a ban on gun purchases that would apply to Social Security recipients who needed help managing their finances. The Los Angeles Times reported that the ban would be sweeping; that it would cover thise who are unable to manage their own affairs for a multitude of reasons–from “subnormal intelligence or mental illness” to “incompetency,” an unspecified “condition,” or “disease.”


Obama admin finalizes Social Security Gun Ban

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#1203428 - 05/26/17 10:46 PM Re: Universal Background Checks [Re: lue-jones]
lue-jones Offline
Marksman

Registered: 02/17/12
Posts: 382
Loc: USA
City or County: Montgomery
Quote:
I believe we have a responsibility to protect both the safety and rights of Virginians. I’ve worked hard as an advocate for gun reform, including pushing for the Manchin-Toomey legislation on universal background checks


Tom for VA

Taken from Mr. P3Bills thread here.

Take the time to familiarize yourself with the details on universal background checks.

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#1322804 - 02/24/18 06:16 AM Re: Universal Background Checks [Re: lue-jones]
lue-jones Offline
Marksman

Registered: 02/17/12
Posts: 382
Loc: USA
City or County: Montgomery
Quote:

Trump vows to push comprehensive gun background checks: 'Raise age to 21'
© Getty Images
President Trump said Thursday he will push for comprehensive background checks “with an emphasis on mental health” for gun sales, saying that the age of purchasers should be raised to 21 and bump stocks should be banned.

“I will be strongly pushing Comprehensive Background Checks with an emphasis on Mental Health,” Trump wrote on Twitter. “Raise age to 21 and end sale of Bump Stocks! Congress is in a mood to finally do something on this issue — I hope!”


The Hill

Quote:
The primary method of combating the symptoms of mental illness that we face under capitalism must be organizing those suffering to come into violent class conflict with the system that creates their illness,” says the group’s manifesto.


Antifa wants to recruit mentally ill

Quote:
Rep. Keith Ellison, D-Minn., the deputy chair of the Democratic National Committee, caused a stir on social media Wednesday when he posed with a book promoting the violent "Antifa" movement.



Fox

Let the above information sink in, the Deputy Chair of the DNC is promoting Antifa, the same domestic terrorist organization responsible for violent protests across the country. Antifa is recruiting mentally ill members in the middle of a national debate on gun control where mental health is one of the mainstream talking points. Which just so happens to be what the left has been pushing for.

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#1328541 - 03/09/18 11:26 PM Re: Universal Background Checks [Re: lue-jones]
lue-jones Offline
Marksman

Registered: 02/17/12
Posts: 382
Loc: USA
City or County: Montgomery
Quote:
Other provisions of the law include raising the age to purchase a firearm to 21 from 18, banning the sale or possession of bump fire stocks, giving law enforcement greater power to seize weapons and ammunition from those deemed mentally unfit, and additional funding for armed school resource officers.


Cnn

Florida just passed legislation with some of the worst elements of the UCB model. As this thread lays out, these provisions are ripe for abuse.

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#1328599 - 03/10/18 01:46 AM Re: Universal Background Checks [Re: lue-jones]
lue-jones Offline
Marksman

Registered: 02/17/12
Posts: 382
Loc: USA
City or County: Montgomery
Gun Control -- No matter what your opinion, you need to see this

Above, we see a fine, outstanding American who lays out a very powerful speech on gun control. Highly recommended viewing that I may or may not have previously posted. At any rate, its worth acknowledging again and again.

Quote:
U.S vs. Miller 309 U.S 174 1939 it was made clear that the type of firearms protected by the second amendment were to be specifically useful and common for military use in defense of the state. I would like to note, that the state, is not the government. The state is the people."

In Lewis vs United States 1980 it is stated that the second amendment guarantees no right to keep and bear a firearm that does not have some reasonable relationship to the preservation and effeciency of a well regulated militia. It was nothing to do with hunting.

....And further, that ordinarily, when called for service, these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves, and of a kind in common use of the time, the AR15 is the most common and popular rifle in America.


Quote:
The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.


Cornell Law


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#1331625 - 03/17/18 02:34 PM Re: Universal Background Checks [Re: lue-jones]
lue-jones Offline
Marksman

Registered: 02/17/12
Posts: 382
Loc: USA
City or County: Montgomery
Quote:
A Broward County judge on Friday issued the state’s first order temporarily removing guns from a person under Florida’s new gun-control laws.

Four firearms and 267 rounds of ammunition were ordered removed from a 56-year-old Lighthouse Point man who was determined to be a potential risk to himself or others.


Quote:
The man was also taken to a hospital for involuntary psychiatric treatment under the state’s Baker Act. But the civil ruling removing his access to guns and ammunition was granted under the new legislation — which permits confiscating guns from people who have not been committed but are deemed a potential risk to themselves or others, according to the order signed by Broward’s Chief Judge Jack Tuter


Confiscation

The potential for abuse with this kind of legislation is wide open, under what circumstances can someone be deemed a threat to themselves or others? In this age of see something, say something consider how easy it is to come in contact with law enforcement? With this kind of environment, firearm owners could easily be walking on egg shells in an effort not to say something or do something to upset somebody who could easily turn you into the stasi for any number of false, half truth allegations. Your freedom of speech limited to towing the politically correct line because of how easily one could be reported for false or even true allegations which leads to a knock at the door from the stasi who are following up on any number of reports that could have been made against you.

A slippery slope which has already been abused in places like California and New York, and which will undoubtedly lead to further abuses as this kind of legislation spreads.

Over one million children age 6+ on psych meds

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